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 Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder

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FleurDeLis
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PostSubject: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:18 am

Are the occupants ready for the changes they seek? Do they really know what they want? Are they aware of and willing to live with the consequences of their proposed changes? Are they aware of and willing to take responsibility for their part in the crisis, for their part in the growth of inequalities? Are they aware that a neglect of responsibility will enable another vicious cycle?
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:33 pm

A valid perspective: Arrow Unoccupy ...


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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:37 pm

Another good article imo:
Arrow Time to Unoccupy ...
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:23 pm

The trend will continue but the fringe will suffer
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:31 am

http://www.theintellectual.info/opinion/cultural-critique/140-modus-vivendi-in-skinner-we-trust

I was in college between the years 1977 and 1982. Along with thousands of other students from fair-to-middling to pretty good high schools, I attended a large state university on the east coast.

A good percentage of my freshman class were the first generation in our families to attend college at all—this is what we were told by the administrators at orientation.

Needless to say, we were all pretty impressed with ourselves.

Equally needlessly, I'll say that we put our unqualified trust in our university.


After all, so many of us came from immigrant families... blue collar, I've Been Working On the Railroad families. And for some of our grandparents, 'blue collar' was a step UP.

So there we were, the class of 1981, with lots of vowels at the ends of our names, names which indicated a heritage from the not so very aristocratic southern parts of Europe, and with nothing better than a 19th century American pedigree, we were about to partake of The American Dream: a college education and a professional future.

We sat there self-consciously blushing next to parents who were gleaming with pride and happiness (“My child is a college student!”).
We were the bright and shining hopes of the American dream, a dream that had pushed our grandparents and great-grandparents into sweaty, smelly, unhealthy steerage compartments for weeks of confinement at sea and an long, long assault on the senses and immune system...only to come to a cold new land with a strange angular language, strange light-haired people, strange customs, and even stranger value systems...
Our grandparents were were called wops and dagos and expected to pick the berries and build the bridges and railroads.
They did all that, you see, so their grandchildren and great-grandchildren could sit scrubbed and shining in an auditorium...hmm, roughly 80 or 90 years later, and be congratulated for being the first generation of college students in their families.


Later, we'd become teachers, doctors, lawyers, engineers. A few of us would even come to sit on the Supreme Court, terminal vowels and all.
So in early September, 1977, we sat there, the great olive-skinned hopes of a hard-striving 19th century immigrant wave from southern Europe, the products of blood, sweat, lots of toil, fervent prayers and many tears and hopes and dreams. I think we just assumed that we were in a place where our minds and perhaps our characters would be trained; where we'd acquire professional skills that would empower us to achieve that cherished 'American Dream': a white-collar job, two-car garage attached to the house in the suburbs, and the 1.59 children.


That was not my dream, however. I was one of the oddballs who was always looking for that 'something more.' Something More took the shape of a spiritual quest for me. I knew a few fellow travelers, but not many. The majority of the people I knew were chasing that material dream.
One thing we all shared was trust in our rarefied slice of society, the intelligentsia, and by extension, our university. It never occurred to us to question the academy and the values of the academic system—we never questioned the entire theoretical framework upon which it was based. I don't recall that ever being challenged.


The government was questioned, definitely. We were just barely out of Vietnam in 1977, and the memory of Watergate, Kent State, Lieutenant Calley, the Tet Offensive and the secret bombing of Laos and Cambodia... all very fresh in the collective memory. No, there was no love lost or trust wasted between our generation and our government. As I recall, things were a sort of quiet, resigned modus vivendi: you leave us alone, we leave you alone. The spirit and fire had gone out of the protest movement by 1977. The war, and thus, the draft, were over with by then. Mission accomplished.


By '77, things had quieted down. We still didn't trust the government, but we had set our sights on that all-important middle or upper-middle class lifestyle. Most of us, that is. The spirit of protest had gone underground...and into the universities where it took the form of arcane academic articles published in journals that hardly anybody read.


It amazes me now to think of it.



For a generation raised on skepticism, for whom the phrase “Question Authority” was a byword, not once do I ever recall anyone questioning the theoretical underpinnings and ideological assumptions of the academy itself. That framework was decidedly secular and atheistic. But it was the default value, the given, the transcendental signifier of our lives. And we never questioned it. Not that I recall, anyway.
Question anything, challenge anything, but never dare to question the invisible secular assumptions that were the gods of academic discourse. Do so at your peril.


[....]


HOW is it being USED?


Of course 'knowledge is power.” Everyone knows that. Once you have this power, what are you doing with it?
If we have special “knowledge” of the human psyche and motivational landscape, we have a bit more power than others, don't we. And how do we make use of that knowledge?


I know how Knowledge-as-Power was used by the psychology department at my university in 1977: it was used dishonestly and immorally to exert POWER over students to push a diabolical ideology of atheistic hedonism.




And because we were not the most sophisticated students on the planet, most of us coming from backgrounds which were not, let's say, WASP and upper-middle class, we tended to buy into what was being fed to us. After all—this was college. The first step in achieving the nirvana of the Great American Dream. They knew better than we did, right? The people in charge at the college. The professors and people running things.



... (continue on the page)
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:24 am

i'm posting this in anwer to this

Quote :

However, there are some protesters out there that are clueless and don’t understand what they are doing. Many fault the US government for so many people being in debt for their mortgages, student loans, and credit cards. While the government and banks, mortgage companies, and government are largely to blame, the consumer must also assume some of the blame. Thousands of people took out mortgages with little or no money down on homes valued at multiples of their yearly income. How are these people not to blame as well? Yes, the mortgage bankers duped them and oftentimes altered income documentation on mortgage applications, but consumers must also assume some blame for outspending their means. How are the banks or the government to blame for student loans that are becoming delinquent leaving people in debt? Unfortunately, college tuition is overly expensive and the vast majority of people must take out loans to finance a child’s education. How is the university to blame for people who can’t make the payments? The protesters have no leaders and no solutions and that is where they fail. Complaints without better solutions are useless.


cause i can tell i'm part of those population whose parrent 'immigrated' in richer country, after being persecuted, colonised, tortured and killed by catholics or colonial mentality saying their way is evil and that they are uncivilised, having no choice than to be left folloing the academic teaching and banking system that has been installed, with the premise that it is the best system and those who don't follow it are sort of lost cheap 'anarchist' who are just uncivilised and non god believer, even if it is the modern bonapartist polytechnic form of god, and then more or less systematically discriminated for their idea/religion, with all the propaganda and lie told uppon it most of the time still unjustified, and they don't find anything smarter to say than 'ho they must take the blame of the responsability of it too, the participated in it too' , i mean sometime those ppl are really slightly disgusting in the way they think

it is all the time the same, those ppl claim to be the expert of everything, and bear no contestation of their thinking at all, when it is ok they take all the greateness of it and congrat thesmelve for their great experitise and remain mong themselve in their circle of decision and never listen anyone, neither for loan thing that are showed being the only solution by them the expert, the society leader that show themselve as the only model of society success, for those ppl to have a home, and then they say ppl should take responsability over their own mistake that they impose all over the planet as being the only valid expertise and other not thinking or acting that way are 'anarchist' or 'don't have a clue', and then when shit happen, suddently it is them who have to take responsability for it too ? Smile

pff Smile

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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:35 am

currently the arguements of the defender of that system are really weak, all their arguement are completly absurd lol

there are ppl who criticise this whole shit for 2 century, they systemitically has been elimiinated and persecuted, so no, the blame is fully on them and no one else

unless they mean others are responsible for not using dirty weapons and atrocity on whole continents to impose their way of thinking ? Smile and that they are pacific enought to follow their way of loan and banking and industry as they dictate, and then it is their fault because they accept it ? lol
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:53 am

not saying occupy wall street is a great wonder either, i'm too left to wonder what it will lead to or what it is made of, but most of the arguement against it are really low level, it is really stanilist kind of stuff, really totally scrambling meaning of the words and totally oblvious to whole part of what has lead to this situation, and their analysis is very poor and totally biased

it is totally normal for me that this kind of motion will take more and more importance today, even in occident al worldeven in NYC

and maybe also i find this very often that protesters should also genereally speaking be more informed about history of similar motion, and history of other ppl who fought for the same reason as them, and have way more experience into this 'struggle' or about the 'economic opression'

but in the same time, it is no wonder why ppl do'nt know about those because these same person who say protesters should be more informed do all their best to keep them disinformed, and are also the one responsible for this lack of information, and this 'social|racial' clash, whenever you take stands of those ppl that the first article speak about ,the long date oppressed, finally their whole idology has been oompletly lied about and destroyed, or at best or completly ommited , in the media as well as in schools

and it is not even that clear if american should or not algn themsleve on the other oppressed population or that they should even inspire themsleve from those method if they don't apply to their present situation which is quite a premiere all together, this model of OWS is fairly a new thing that never really happened in this same configuration

until now, those ppl who claim the population have no clue didn't really expressed anything convincing either as to solve the problem, or pretend their system have no problem and that it is the fault of the ppl because they don't follow it, so if there is a bleme to put it is because ppl don't follow this system, but when it fail, it is because they didn't take responsibility for themsleve against those rule, it is really contradictory
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:10 am

Oh, so we are disgusting because we don't support the age of entitlement; we are disgusting because we don't enable the victim mentality; we are disgusting because we are demanding ALL people to take responsibility for their actions. Whatever dude, go be with the victims on IS if that's what you want and help them enable each others bullshit.

What I find disgusting is to push spirituality on people; what I find disgusting is to argue in favor of systems that have failed over and over, no matter how and where they were applied.

Yes, capitalism creates excess wealth, but that wealth enables us to fight for causes beyond mere survival. Where do human rights activist come from? Where do they draw their resources from? Because capitalist don't fight for their own survival anymore they can turn to bigger causes, acting globally to make a difference.

People in power have abused their power since the dawn of humanity, it has nothing to do with corporations or capitalist theory; it has to do with people. No matter what system you employ, people will abuse it in some way shape or form. And please don't try to tell me that Islam nations are free of corruption and greed, corruption festers there ... same goes for Hindu nations or any other spiritually inclined groups.
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:22 am

FleurDeLis wrote:
Oh, so we are disgusting because we don't support the age of entitlement; we are disgusting because we don't enable the victim mentality; we are disgusting because we are demanding ALL people to take responsibility for their actions. Whatever dude, go be with the victims on IS if that's what you want and help them enable each others bullshit.

What I find disgusting is to push spirituality on people; what I find disgusting is to argue in favor of systems that have failed over and over, no matter how and where they were applied.

Yes, capitalism creates excess wealth, but that wealth enables us to fight for causes beyond mere survival. Where do human rights activist come from? Where do they draw their resources from? Because capitalist don't fight for their own survival anymore they can turn to bigger causes, acting globally to make a difference.

People in power have abused their power since the dawn of humanity, it has nothing to do with corporations or capitalist theory; it has to do with people. No matter what system you employ, people will abuse it in some way shape or form. And please don't try to tell me that Islam nations are free of corruption and greed, corruption festers there ... same goes for Hindu nations or any other spiritually inclined groups.

yes other nation did the same, but they accept it, and don't try to hide it at all cost to feel better than the others, they accept their whole system with their flaw and good side, and don't promote only the good side and only justify by criticising others that are deemed worst, often for bad reason

a guy on GLP told something, for ex his gran parent has been in stalinian camp, and he say that even if he don't like staliin, he totally agree that ppl criticising it are doing it for totally wrong reason most of the time in most the complete ignorance of what it was ab out, and their arguements are just made in order to justify their own action than to be a fair analsysi of stalinism, even if staliiism or lislam can and must be criticised, their critics is totally wrong, and made on fake basis, and their speech has more in goal to spread to lie to favorise their idea than to be a fair and honnest ciritics of stalinism, islam, hidnuism

same goes with islam or hinduism, and i never advocated forcing anything on anyone, or if i did so, please point me where i did, or where i supposted the idea of forcing thing over any one

and i have nothing against excess wealth, actually i'm technially part of the person who benefit from this system, both my parnet make lot of monney, and i never had any problem to integrate in that system, even if i'm not orient toward moneny, i never had trouble to find jobs with above average salaries, at 19 i was working at jobs paid around 2500$ / month, and i never criticised this aspect of creating wealthy persons, neither i support ideology who failed before, despire as usual the critics has to use cheap fake stereotype to justify their idea instead of doing real analysis, hidding behind stone aged rethoric that do not correspond to anything
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:26 am

People in power have abused their power since the dawn of humanity, it has nothing to do with corporations or capitalist theory; it has to do with people. No matter what system you employ, people will abuse it in some way shape or form. And please don't try to tell me that Islam nations are free of corruption and greed, corruption festers there ... same goes for Hindu nations or any other spiritually inclined groups


and this i don't agree, maybe your life is a bitch, but my life isn't one, so good luck with your bitchy life Smile


what is true is that all the system who didn't support the globall corrupted capitalism has been put in concentration and tortured/killed for the past 1000 years or more Smile and then they aer told they should take responsiblity for the action that they have been forced to do Smile pure hypocrisy
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:28 am

now that they are indeed taking responsaiblity, by not following the system, they are told to be 'anarchist' or 'not having a clue', or whatever else, so it is just advocing not taking responsability for anything and letting uncle sam taking responsiblity for everything, saying otherwise is just pure hypocrisy
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:32 am

i grew up with both my parent ùmaking around 10 000e / month, so you can remove the stereotype and thoughtless paradigm that you hide behind saying i'm against wealth or corruption or inegalities or i'm against 'capitalism', cause it just show you just repeat thing without having a clue like all those 'experts' who are just good at saying the same speech without actually caring about it being real or not , just because it is hosw as a 'consencus' Smile

but i guess the only analsysis you can have is limited as parroting stone aged stereotypes without actually having a clue about anything Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:40 am

i've been studying about economics engeineering and scientific since i'm a kid, both my parent are educated and wealthy, and when i came to paris, i was in the dream also of meeting with the super buisness men who know everything, i wanted to get in contact with the experts, the financial head who are supposed to have a clue, and i have met many of them, from all enviroenment, arabs, jew, american, hindu, ppl who make way more than 10 000$/month, ppl who are head of companies directed hundres if not thousand ingeneer, i have many friend ingeeners, and i have been really disapointed by this economic world, all those boss they don't have a friggin clue, they are just there because they have the good contact, and are supported in ther incompetence by wealth ppl who support them for political purpose or for personal purpose more than anything else, just need to be honnest about it and not saying otherwise, cause otherwise it is just plain hypocritical, and again i'm more part of the person who ar econsidered richs and successfull materially, as well as in term education ingenerring, in all the project i ever participated i've been cosnidered as a good element, and i always had lot of admitaration for entrepreneur ship and ingeneriing

it doesn't prevent me to say that most ppl don't have a clue about what tey are speaking about when they speak about islam or communism as a whole, they are just under educated and deconstructing the lie they say about it doesn't mean i support communism or islam, but i'm just deconstructing all the lies that are made about it for having a discussion about real matter and not a game of hypocrisy of who can tell more shit about the other without actually having a clue about anything
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:44 am

They are not taking responsibility, they are pushing blame! Slight difference, big impact.

My life ain't a bitch, I wonder where that notion comes from ... but OK. And as far as I know, the one group that has been put in concentrations camps by one nation, was heavily integrated into to global "corrupt" capitalistic machine.

Most people who are protesting have indeed no clue what they are talking about, nor do they understand the consequences of their demands. And then there are protest-happy anarchist; everything that goes against the system is a worthy cause for them to mingle in the protest. What started as a push for the end of corporate greed has turned into an anti-everything spiral. They don't even agree with each other on what needs to be done; what's holding them together is anger, nothing else. They got burned by people that they held high for decades, people they supported with no regards to the dynamic behind it; they feel cheated right now. As soon as they get what they want the rest of the world want matter anymore and they go back to their old ways ... sit back and watch it happen!

And do me a favor, quit spamming! If you can't put your thoughts in one posts maybe you need to think a bit more before you speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:48 am

Yeah dude, you know everything and I don't have a clue ... whatever; I'm not going to have another days long discussion with you about this. You keep twisting my words no matter what I say because you want to prove your point.

Do your thing, I do mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:53 am

both my parent always had lot of monney, and they always educated me not to brag about it, to be humble about it and to respect all persons, not regarding their wealth or poverty, it is not what matter for me when i judge someone, i don't ppl in statistics of 99% of 1%, i don't give a hit about this, this whole speech is completly inacurate and dumb, it doesn't mean anything to me as it is presented

technically i have some gran uncle and gran cousin that have been killed by stalinism, even if it was in spain via the marxist republic who was supported and amred by stalin and ussr, so if you care to remove your 2 cents stereotype about what i might stand for you might be able to understand better where i come from


their capitalism doesn't worht a shit, and their arguement about stalin and islam are completly stupid and ignorant, it is not for this i don't support wealth or inequalities or any of this shit, and i'm actually more part of the 1% educated and wealthy , and i don't support stalnism or islam for that matter either

now tell me where there are those great ppl who have a clue about the world, come on, point me an organisation, a corporation, a polician, a wall streeet group, a financial group, that you consider having a clue, say me one name of a person that you consider having a clue about this, or say me the clue you have about either islam or stalinism exept the BS that are fed in ppl mind for 70 year that are complete lie without any basis in reality
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:55 am

FleurDeLis wrote:
Yeah dude, you know everything and I don't have a clue ... whatever; I'm not going to have another days long discussion with you about this. You keep twisting my words no matter what I say because you want to prove your point.

Do your thing, I do mine.

yes i do my thing you see, i'm doing my thing, and you are not doing anything, and tell me where i twisted your words, you post thing i answer my view and then you left sayin g that you do your thing, and i'm doing my thing, yes it is like this it happen, no problem on this, and you still don't provide a clue about anything


and what is this point exactly that i'm trying to prove ? i'm not trying to prove anything ever, unlike you who keep trying to prove thing that i demonstrate being wrong


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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 am

FleurDeLis wrote:
Most people who are protesting have indeed no clue what they are talking about, nor do they understand the consequences of their demands. And then there are protest-happy anarchist; everything that goes against the system is a worthy cause for them to mingle in the protest. What started as a push for the end of corporate greed has turned into an anti-everything spiral. .

again this is based on only statement of your side, and actually it doesn't seem to be even true, and most ppl seem to actually know what they protest for even if they are not all protesting for the exact same thing like a mussonilian group, and ctually lot of them have diplomas or are workers, you are more again expressing the content of your ideology, doing your thing without really caring about what anyone else does, it must just be that anything you think is true, even when the reality is otherwise Smile

very few of ppl who are into this are acutally anarchists, lot of them are more or less christian, more american, diplomed or worker and are mostly pacificists and they know what they are here for, it is again hypocrit to take a minority that is not even supported by the motion to explain it all without taking in account the other factors and the other persons
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:23 pm

The reason I say do your thing and I do mine is that I'm wasting my time arguing with you; you don't or don't want to understand where I'm coming from, you are to busy finding the fault in the system when the system is composed of people and people are at fault. You are to busy trying to protect that movement because you see merit in it for one reason or another.

I was never against the core notion of the movement, but the fact that it's coming from Americans who have no regards for the rest of the world is pathetic; they feel ever so entitled but don't want to do anything for it. I'm working on a bigger picture and you can hate on me for not jumping the Occupy bandwagon all you want; you can be butt-hurt about being called an anarchist (mind you i never said that) all you want; you can try to argue against me all you want; I will not stop my mission cause you don't agree with me.

If you had any spiritual awareness, you would know not to get in my way. Keep on talking to yourself in this thread if it makes you happy, if you feel you are getting anywhere with this; I will not respond anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:52 pm

the thing anarchist was put in one article you have posted, calling them basically anarchists with very bad connotation that i can't help to find very stalinian, in the sense it completly destroy the origin of the word that come originally from quite deep thinkers who inspired many great motions in the world, actually both gandhi and mlk got their inspiration from writters and thinkers such as tosltory who are claissfied also anarchists, and so he use the word anarchist incorrectly in a stalinian way

and i'm all open to know where you coming from, actually as you don't even say where you come from, i'll give it a shot a describing where you come from, to say that ppl who are not productive and not doing everything they can to be productive in the society are at fault in anycase for the society wrong, on which i agree, and i always encourage ppl to get educated and reading books rather than to protest

and i honnestly find most of the arguement for this motions are actually moot, and i don't specially defend it either, even if i critics their criticiser because they attack it for wrong reason, it doesn't mean i agree with the motion in itself either or that i want to protect it, but the ppl who speak against it say also lie and do it for take reason, and those reason they invoke are only invoked because it serv er their purpose and not because they are accurate about the actual motion

and i don't expet that you stop your mission because i supposedly don't agree with you or anything alike,


so well yes keep talking to yourself in your thread and not answering anymore ppl who supposedly don't agree with you, and do your own thing with yourself as the only validation of the truth of it =)

and thanks for saying 'if i had spiritual awarness ' blabla i would do like you because you have the monopoly of spiritual awareness and the closing the thread, who is trying to stop the other of doing his thing here ?
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:25 pm

For me this protest is made up of two main factors (as usual for most movements). The first are the genuine honest people who are suffering earnestly from this recession and are angry with the abuse of financial institutions in causing this recession, they are angry they are getting away with it without suffering like them.

However they are getting sucked into basically an anarchist revolutionary type movement who don't have the best interests of the people in mind because they have their own agenda which is based on their politics and not on the cares of the people. So this is the root cause for why there is no clear goals or demands from these protests so it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:19 pm

Ok I see this about capitalism and communism the whole time. My obsevation is that "capitalism" is a word used by totalitarian anarchists or communists who dislike democracy when instead capitalism is a cultural condition.

There is a big difference between democracy in brazi or russia when compared with Sweden and Denmark and for the communist they are all just capitalist pigs lol

It's a cultural problem not the democratic system, we the people allow this very simply and I am inclined to agree with the sentiments of FleurDeLis on this.

I have sympathy with some of what Sparky says, the separate corporate identiity for companies is just asking for corruption lol, but this is how industrialisation is created with big business movements that operate like a country so it's not easy to solve except again with better government control and legislation.
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:52 am

FleurDeLis wrote:
Most people who are protesting have indeed no clue what they are talking about, nor do they understand the consequences of their demands. And then there are protest-happy anarchist; everything that goes against the system is a worthy cause for them to mingle in the protest. What started as a push for the end of corporate greed has turned into an anti-everything spiral. They don't even agree with each other on what needs to be done; what's holding them together is anger, nothing else. They got burned by people that they held high for decades, people they supported with no regards to the dynamic behind it; they feel cheated right now. As soon as they get what they want the rest of the world want matter anymore and they go back to their old ways ... sit back and watch it happen!

Yep. Agreed. I hate the machine in one hand and love it in the other, lose-lose. Without it I doubt I would be able to have a conversation online, and with it we are born into a life of slavery. The irony is that I'd have to smash my computer to free myself. It's about values at the end of the day, and mine will always be different to everyone else's I've discovered lol
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PostSubject: Re: Occupy Wall Street ... I'm left to wonder   Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:53 am

HigherDepth wrote:
For me this protest is made up of two main factors (as usual for most movements). The first are the genuine honest people who are suffering earnestly from this recession and are angry with the abuse of financial institutions in causing this recession, they are angry they are getting away with it without suffering like them.

However they are getting sucked into basically an anarchist revolutionary type movement who don't have the best interests of the people in mind because they have their own agenda which is based on their politics and not on the cares of the people. So this is the root cause for why there is no clear goals or demands from these protests so it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.


Exactly! Thanks for pointing that out and welcome Smile.
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