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 Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...

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FleurDeLis
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PostSubject: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:55 pm



I have yet to find a way to deal with this, it'd driving me nuts more often than enough. Maybe it's not empathy, but in one way or another I'm getting information beyond the obvious. Sometimes that information is helpful to give good advice or insight into a situation, other times getting the info equals hitting a brick wall. Classic example, my hub: If we are bickering or something is up, he rarely speaks his mind...but I know, and I re-act to it; I can't help it. Than he says"...but I did not do anything". Well, he didn't not do anything, at least not in the conventional way... Now what? I can't prove to him what I know. So I respond, "You are right, you did not do anything", and move on. It's frustrating...

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sovnd

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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:05 pm

what do you know.. or do you just sense that there is something unspoken that is causing tension..
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:11 pm

I guess it's more sensing than knowing ... but it sure feels like I can peek straight into peoples heads sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:00 pm

"actions speak louder than words"

the thing is we don't actually "have" a thought from start to finish. the good part of any sense is biological and neurological chemical interactions, plus sensory data which we compute faster than light speed. this all comes together as a let's say 90% chance that the sky is blue, all that's left is to confirm this with someone else to be satisfied. what often happens is you have your 90% and you can't get the 10% for whatever reason, this causes all kinds of havoc in the body. this will cause your body to "speak" in a tense way. just relax completely, be conscious of the tone in your voice.. all that shit.

which is why the "new age" or the age of psychological guerrilla warfare, is terrifying so many people. they can't process this data so they are going mad looking for that 10%, particularly with the paranoia surrounding the end of the world. the governments are withholding information to create this tension which is just a method of control and manipulation if done consciously. kinda like if you ask someone "what's wrong?" and they say "nothing" but you just *know* there is.
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:40 pm

It's hard for me because I knew things just by feeling but was often beat up and treated like crap when I said something about it, so I would make sure I had "real"/ tangible evidence before saying something.

I get into the same kind of arguments with my husband. I know when he's lying and I can feel why, but he won't own up to it. It's gotten to the point where I can tell when he's trying to manipulate me or lie to me. I tried explaining to him how that feels and got a o_O? look lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:05 am

Indeed, I can spot deception a mile away. Some of it is psychology, some of it is intuitive. I don't know why when individuals are confronted with concealing something being wrong, then deny it. Just say you don't feel like talking about it. Deception is a human characteristic, which your dog or cat isn't ever going to deceive you.

People normally aren't intentionally being deceptive. It could be simply that the issue is too personal to talk about and talking about it makes them emotionally vulnerable or otherwise, which I respect this. However, when the deception starts manifesting to where it becomes blatant, I take that in terms the individual is trying to actively deceive me in order to manipulate me.

I don't take kindly to people who try to violate me.

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prism

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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:26 am

"when you can prove what you know...."

You smile on the inside and try not to smirk on the outside.



But, nice. Second post in and 'that unspoken something' has already been honed in on. There are lots of ways to assume things about what we feel, not all of them are correct. Proof in this seems messy so I try to stay as detached as I can while I learn what the 'real information' is. But I guess there's always the mental flamethrower method; Be prepared to kill most of your energy on stupid fights while you break down someones walls of mental gymnastics and introduce them to their real selves. Once they realize their new perspective . .well. . . Then you're one scary mother fucker.

Not fun.
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sovnd

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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:44 am

prism wrote:
"when you can't prove what you know...."

You smile on the inside and try not to smirk on the outside.



But, nice. Second post in and 'that unspoken something' has already been honed in on. There are lots of ways to assume things about what we feel, not all of them are correct. Proof in this seems messy so I try to stay as detached as I can while I learn what the 'real information' is. But I guess there's always the mental flamethrower method; Be prepared to kill most of your energy on stupid fights while you break down someones walls of mental gymnastics and introduce them to their real selves. Once they realize their new perspective . .well. . . Then you're one scary mother fucker.

Not fun.

hahaha, mental flamethrower. I like it.
it's frustrating when someone lies to you on purpose. when the truth is exposed and they realise there is nowhere to hide, it gets nasty. sometimes it's worth letting them think they had been honest, not manipulated lol
but there are times when you get through to someone and can see that they didn't know they were lying, not even to themselves... thats where you need to be sensitive and not lose their trust.


Last edited by sovnd on Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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prism

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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:05 am

it was just an extreme example. It seems like there's a bit of multiplicity with how some of us get this info, experiencing several perspectives at once. For now though when we interact with most people we've got to choose which bits can actually be shared. Not even from a consideration perspective, but of physical and time constraints.

- My eyes are hating screens tonight, that quote in my last post should have been 'when you can't prove'.

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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:33 am

yeah, it's cool when it's just someone at work, or a friend or whatever, but if you live with them or they are your gf/bf then it matters if they withhold information. only because the empathy is that much stronger that it literally causes tension and I dunno. it's hard to live with. i'd rather just have it out with them, I dont like manipulating people - it feels wrong doing it to someone you care about. enemies are fair game Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:35 pm

BigMinnie wrote:
It's hard for me because I knew things just by feeling but was often beat up and treated like crap when I said something about it, so I would make sure I had "real"/ tangible evidence before saying something.

I get into the same kind of arguments with my husband. I know when he's lying and I can feel why, but he won't own up to it. It's gotten to the point where I can tell when he's trying to manipulate me or lie to me. I tried explaining to him how that feels and got a o_O? look lol.

I know it's hard to come by evidence that supports your senses; people are hiding that stuff on purpose.

I've made it a habit to look straight into peoples eyes rather than trying to argue my point; though, you got to look into the eye that is actually focusing on you in that moment. My hub tends to be rather stubborn and rejects any such argument, looking into his eye tends to reveal whether there is more to it than he likes to admit. He get fidgety if he's hiding something and I aim to look right into his soul lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:23 pm

FleurDeLis wrote:
BigMinnie wrote:
It's hard for me because I knew things just by feeling but was often beat up and treated like crap when I said something about it, so I would make sure I had "real"/ tangible evidence before saying something.

I get into the same kind of arguments with my husband. I know when he's lying and I can feel why, but he won't own up to it. It's gotten to the point where I can tell when he's trying to manipulate me or lie to me. I tried explaining to him how that feels and got a o_O? look lol.

I know it's hard to come by evidence that supports your senses; people are hiding that stuff on purpose.

I've made it a habit to look straight into peoples eyes rather than trying to argue my point; though, you got to look into the eye that is actually focusing on you in that moment. My hub tends to be rather stubborn and rejects any such argument, looking into his eye tends to reveal whether there is more to it than he likes to admit. He get fidgety if he's hiding something and I aim to look right into his soul lol.
I've never tried that before, but I definitely will next time :].
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:44 pm

Show me...your soul! Mwhaha! Laughing



That is actually a good idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:14 pm

lol ... I like the pic.
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:16 pm

FleurDeLis wrote:


I have yet to find a way to deal with this, it'd driving me nuts more often than enough. Maybe it's not empathy, but in one way or another I'm getting information beyond the obvious. Sometimes that information is helpful to give good advice or insight into a situation, other times getting the info equals hitting a brick wall. Classic example, my hub: If we are bickering or something is up, he rarely speaks his mind...but I know, and I re-act to it; I can't help it. Than he says"...but I did not do anything". Well, he didn't not do anything, at least not in the conventional way... Now what? I can't prove to him what I know. So I respond, "You are right, you did not do anything", and move on. It's frustrating...


it is difficult to deal with - espeically with people that are close to you (or that you are in close relationships with) and who don't accept the reality of "knowing."

that's what I call it..."knowing" and it works in so many different ways, from knowing how someone is really feeling (or actually thinking) despite their repeated assurances that they are "fine" or that they aren't thinking a certain thing to being able to "know" what someone's intentions are, even before they voice their proposition. It can definitely be disturbing.

But the most important tool I have found with this - is patience.

Yeah, I know, probably not what you wanted to hear. But holding your tongue instead of reacting to your knowing will allow you to guage your approach, to figure a way to deal with the issue (or concern) without putting them on the defensive by (in their view) "guessing" the truth.

Some may consider this to be a form of manipulation, but I can't see it that way. You are not trying to change anything, simply deal with the issue, address the issue or concern (how they really feel) without starting WWIII.
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PostSubject: Re: Emapthy - When you can't prove what you know...   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:03 pm

aislinn wrote:
FleurDeLis wrote:


I have yet to find a way to deal with this, it'd driving me nuts more often than enough. Maybe it's not empathy, but in one way or another I'm getting information beyond the obvious. Sometimes that information is helpful to give good advice or insight into a situation, other times getting the info equals hitting a brick wall. Classic example, my hub: If we are bickering or something is up, he rarely speaks his mind...but I know, and I re-act to it; I can't help it. Than he says"...but I did not do anything". Well, he didn't not do anything, at least not in the conventional way... Now what? I can't prove to him what I know. So I respond, "You are right, you did not do anything", and move on. It's frustrating...


it is difficult to deal with - espeically with people that are close to you (or that you are in close relationships with) and who don't accept the reality of "knowing."

that's what I call it..."knowing" and it works in so many different ways, from knowing how someone is really feeling (or actually thinking) despite their repeated assurances that they are "fine" or that they aren't thinking a certain thing to being able to "know" what someone's intentions are, even before they voice their proposition. It can definitely be disturbing.

But the most important tool I have found with this - is patience.

Yeah, I know, probably not what you wanted to hear. But holding your tongue instead of reacting to your knowing will allow you to guage your approach, to figure a way to deal with the issue (or concern) without putting them on the defensive by (in their view) "guessing" the truth.

Some may consider this to be a form of manipulation, but I can't see it that way. You are not trying to change anything, simply deal with the issue, address the issue or concern (how they really feel) without starting WWIII.

Although I wouldn't call it patience in my case, I have come to refrain from speaking my mind if they are not ready to know about my "knowing" (I tend to call it that too Smile) ... but I look at them, and it appears that they can sense my knowing in my eyes as I look straight into theirs. That tends to be enough for me to feel OK about it.
It's tough to live with that sometimes, but I guess I found some coping mechanisms Smile.
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