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 Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions

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FleurDeLis
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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:47 pm

It really doesn't make sense ... and it is sad on top of that.
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:50 am

sometime i even want to say communism is not the essence of marx thinking, and marx is not the essence of communism =)

marx in the bottom it is always the same thing that you find in social critics, or sociology, to be open minded, it is first a critics of how society can abuse intellect, about objectivisation, it is in fact quite close to eastern philosophy of subjectivism, lenine used those same trick that marx was criticising

and what is broadly called marism is not really 'communist' in the original meaning of it, i think marx was first a revolutionary, his writing can be seen as a tool that can be used against the enmies of the communities of his time
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:13 am

i understood why americains don't understand communism while watching a series they make on french TV called history of america, there is like a dizains of episodes, and i watched the one at the start of skyskrapper building and the start of american industry, and they were presenting it like the 'new world' for ppl who had to live their home country, and in fact america was made mostly of isolated exilee who were fleing their home land, and there never was any communities in america traditionally like it could be in europe or africa or arab countries

in asia they were already functionning on collectivist model way before marx since the middle age, marx says it is because of rice field , that are collective work, there is no individual rice field and they need to involes often dizain of person working together on the filed to get a result, but ev en in europe during the feudal time, village were functionning much like communes, in france village of < 2000 inhabitant are still called comune, and were functionning traditionally like this in village, without there is ev en really a monetary system or a clear hierchy or social organisation, exept the catholic church and lord to protect them

finally today most of the time, i see marxism associated with a form of national communism, which is the economic model that is used today most of the time, it make sense in some countris like in france or germany or america, because there is quite a cultural unity in those country, there never was big civil war were two or more big part of population were against each other, hitler didn't lot german ppl, in france it is the same, in northern country or england too, there is quite a cultural unity, so national communism make sense, and 'nationalisation',

but in countries like spain italy mediteraeans country or arab country, or even among jew communities, there is much more a dimension of tribe or independatists, or famillial/ethnical groups, who worked used a model close to communism or communalism since all the time, and in that context marx was more a critics of the deshuminations that the industry was bringing, the industry controlled by ppl who were not part of peasant or local tribe, and controlled the industry and the working condition and benefits of the factories, and communism was more of a fight to keep the industry functionning with the peasant community model, without b eing controlled by banks or exterior capitalis

the situation in spain and russia were there has been lot of communism or anarchism activism is the same that most structure were owned by foreign capitals, and 'capitalism' 'bank system' was truly seen as a direct intrusion and destruction of traditional way of life, the whole WW2 fascism wave was all on the background of elminating tribe or communities to build a kind of nationalist communism model
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:26 am

but marx can only be told to be communism in the context of ctricising the industrial organisation, as an organisation exterior to existing communities, but the context of nationalisation as it has been installed in most country that is often called marxisml is not communism, and marx in fact is more a tool of cratiics if you apply it to the nationalist communism model,marx is also a critics of it, leninist/marxist it is like judeo christianism, it doesn't mean anything lol

situationist who are bit neo marxist of the 1970's cricised both eastern bloc and capitalism with the same speech of critics of the media, and critics of propaganda and of the alienation that capitalism was supposed to create with marketting and media impact, that is the hearth of marx philosophy, and at that time it was critising capitalism because it was what was representing this mecanical and functional type of society, of the homo econominus, but lenin and staline and the sovietic regim came to become exactly the same, and can hardly told to be 'marxist', even a marxist system it doesn't even really mean anything in itself
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:31 am

ppl line lenin and stalin hav e more inspiration from ppl like napoleon and bonarpartists than from marx

another criteria that always make me wonder with stalism, communism is always fundementally a pacifist doctrine, because it refuse hierachy, it also fordib hierarchised military, and only encourage militia with no uniform, no salute and no obligation, so no big army, and military industry reduced because it doesn't have any interest in a communism model to develop weapon industry, i think it is what made original communism to fail against nazism and ussr, because they were not militarised and anti propaganda, so they have been out grown by the big industrial machines

before the WW2, there was basically only two country with that kind of industrial potential, there was germany and usa, they were the only one with really developed industry, and having developped weapon industry, then stalin made the pact with the nazi, and ussr also developed an industry that is in the biottom quite similar to the one of the USA as it is shown by the rockets, and same model to build space ship while ppl are starving in the street, which is totally againt marx philosophy in both side the two block were non marxist non communist industrial system who both killed and perscuted the real communist and jew and tribal life in their different fiorm in the whole world
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:47 am

another thing that always make me ponder, it is when usa revendicate freedom, opposing it to russian stalinism, or even to any 'reds' along side with catholic church, but when you look at background population and what was going on, all real freedom activism motion, may it be tolstoy who is hold to have inspired greatly both gandhi and martin luther king, maoist and revolution in china, or all the political activism in latin country, compared to america

exept the black panther, there is never any real political activism or revoluionary freedom group, american are always btragging with their gun, but compared to real militarised country like russia or columbia, where there are automatic guns all over the place, where ppl have an AK47 in their hand at 14 year old, with death every day all over the place, armed conflict, in fact exept black panthers there was never any real freedom group or big motion like that in america, compared to chinese tongs or alike, who are called anti freedom communist by america, who are in the same time bragging with their gun and thair patriotism, it is real odd sometime lol

america they more have the culture to follow the move and never really questioning anything, and are told to be freedom country

even the liberalism, it is more anti cultural most of the time, it make me laught when i see they 'free' countries, what does it mean in the bottom, that they remove the local culture to install their capitalist industry in a colonial way, and it is suppose to 'free' them, it is odd how concept are always turned around with how american action are described in popular medias
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:49 am

it is like all the country where there have been traditional freedom figher and policial activism for decade who are denoucing capitalism like a slave system, are called non freedom by american which the capitalist system is linked will all dicator that ever existed on the planet, it is really schiso sometime how things are presented
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:52 am

it is like the world upside down, the pacisist are called terrorist by the countries who are the slavist and massive destruction weapon makers since all time, and they call other anti freedom that they represent, they are psycho
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:22 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism

Marxism–Leninism is a communist ideology that is officially based upon the theories of Marxism and Vladimir Lenin, that promotes the development and creation of international communist society through the leadership of a vanguard party over a revolutionary socialist state that represents a dictatorship of the proletariat.[1] Marxist-Leninist society seeks to purge anything considered bourgeois, idealist, or religious from it.[2] It supports the creation of a totalitarian single-party state.[3][4] It rejects political pluralism external to communism, claiming that the proletariat need a single, able political party to represent them and exercise political leadership.[5] The Marxist-Leninist state forbids opposition to itself and its ideology.[6] Through the policy of democratic centralism, the communist party is the supreme political institution of the Marxist-Leninist state.[3]

Marxism-Leninism is a far-left ideology. It is based on principles of class conflict, egalitarianism, dialectical materialism and rationalism, as well as social progress. It is anti-bourgeois, anti-capitalist, anti-conservative, anti-fascist, anti-imperialist, anti-liberal, anti-reactionary, is opposed to revisionism of Marxism, and is opposed to bourgeois democracy.

The Marxism-Leninist state utilizes a centrally planned state socialist economy.[6] It supports public ownership of the economy and supports the confiscation of almost all private property that becomes public property administered by the state, while a minuscule portion of private property is allowed to remain.[7] It typically replaces the role of market in the capitalist economy with centralized state management of the economy that is known as a command economy.[7] However an alternative Marxist-Leninist economy that exists is the market socialist economy that has been used by the People's Republic of China, and historically by the People's Republic of Hungary and the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionism_(Marxism)

n the 1920s and 1930s, the International Left Opposition led by Leon Trotsky, which had been expelled from the Communist International, accused the "revisionist" leadership of the Comintern and Soviet Union of revising the internationalist principles of Marxism and Leninism in favor of the aspirations of an elite bureaucratic caste which had come to power in the Soviet Union.[3] The Trotskyists saw the nascent "Stalinist" bureaucracy as a roadblock on the proletariat's path to world socialist revolution, and to the shifting policies of the Comintern, they counterposed the Marxist theory of Permanent Revolution. The Soviet authorities, meanwhile, labeled the Trotskyists as "revisionists" and eventually expelled them from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, whereupon the Trotskyists founded their Fourth International.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution

Permanent revolution is a term within Marxist theory, established in usage by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels by at least 1850 but which has since become most closely associated with Leon Trotsky. The use of the term by different theorists is not identical. Marx used it to describe the strategy of a revolutionary class to continue to pursue its class interests independently and without compromise, despite overtures for political alliances, and despite the political dominance of opposing sections of society.

Trotsky put forward his conception of 'permanent revolution' as an explanation of how socialist revolutions could occur in societies that had not achieved advanced capitalism. Part of his theory is the impossibility of 'socialism in one country' - a view also held by Marx, but not integrated into his conception of permanent revolution. Trotsky's theory also argues, first, that the bourgeoisie in late-developing capitalist countries are incapable of developing the productive forces in such a manner as to achieve the sort of advanced capitalism which will fully develop an industrial proletariat. Second, that the proletariat can and must, therefore, seize social, economic and political power, leading an alliance with the peasantry.

The term has also been used to describe Thomas Jefferson's endorsement of periodic rebellion as "medicine necessary for the sound health of government".[1]
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:40 pm

ppl really often confuse 'marxism leninism' with marxism, and if you take marx in its integrality it is actually onctradictory with leninism, it is the same inacurate amalgam when ppl speak of judeo christianism or abrahimic god, it doesn't really mean anything, it is like a notion encompossing ellement of different opposed belief system

and ppl allways associate marxism with a system that is in fact opposed to it, and forget the essence principle both of marx and of communism to focus on a sort of cheap doubious derivate of marx ideas =)
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Sparky23



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PostSubject: Re: Communism - Coneptions/Misconceptions   Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:42 pm

it doesn't even really make sense to speak of a marxist system, cause marx doesn't even describe in depth a perfect system, he describe the alienation of capitalism and dialectic traps and give tool to understand and fight it, and there is the concept of awareness and 'permanant revolution' and need for renewing that is absent in leninism marxism and ppl always associate incorrectly marxism with this
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